The most accurate fly rod

[Merlin]

The graphic in post #1 showed on the right side is relevant of a spine issue, and the graphic on the bottom is relevant of a stability issue, two different things.

An uncontrolled spine can exhibit lateral displacement of the tip whilst oscillating, and the cause is in the butt section of the rod (cf. Vince). If spine is correctly controlled then any rod can oscillate straight, no quantum leap is anticipated.

The stability issue is a design problem (wobbling) and is linked to the frequencies corresponding to harmonics. Caster’s input can excite various frequencies and if higher harmonics are on the low value side, then they can meet caster’s input and make the rod wobble. No quantum leap again, this is an old problem not easy to solve in some conditions (long rods, light lines).

So marketing (BS) is back again.

The only improvement I could witness for accuracy was the introduction of hoop fibers more than 15 years ago.

Merlin

[Walter]

Fwiw the picture is tip path of a clamped rod. If someone’s tip is doing that they probably need to work on relaxing the grip at the end of the stroke.

[VGB]

An uncontrolled spine can exhibit lateral displacement of the tip whilst oscillating, and the cause is in the butt section of the rod (cf. Vince). If spine is correctly controlled then any rod can oscillate straight, no quantum leap is anticipated.

Strap a laser pen to your rod butt and make a couple of strokes at real speed and look at the error band in your movement. Spine effects are trivial in comparison.

Caster’s input can excite various frequencies and if higher harmonics are on the low value side, then they can meet caster’s input and make the rod wobble. No quantum leap again, this is an old problem not easy to solve in some conditions (long rods, light lines).

I fish long rods and light lines for much of the year, wind is more of an issue for accuracy.

Vince

[NM]

So let me ask it this way: Do you think there is such a thing as really accurate rods and such a thing as rods that are not accurate? Or are all fly rods equally accurate? Does the amount of counterflex matter in fly casting accuracy? What about consistency in the way the rod flexes --meaning how straight the tip tracks each time the rod flexes. We all know that rods have a spine -- they bend in one direction easier than another. What if you put the spine on the side rather that either the top or bottom so that when the rod flexes the spine tends to move the tip off a straight line?

Thanks and Cheers,

Ben D Matters

Ron,
Where you put the guides relative to the spine matters, sometimes. If you do not align the spine properly and do not put the guides on the rod’s more stable softer bending side, you can sometimes have the rod twist as it unbends causing the leader to kick left or right as in making a curve cast. That’s not good for accuracy. I have made that mistake on a couple of rods I have built. So sloppily build rods can be bad for tournament accuracy casting. You do not need expensive, fancy rods though. As noted, Chris is using an old, soft, and fairly slow one. The one I am currently using, is a soft and slow one built from a $16 low modulus (IM6) China blank.

[VGB]

Hi Nils

you can sometimes have the rod twist as it unbends causing the leader to kick left or right as in making a curve cast.

I can lend you the hazel rod I whittled. It’s shaped like a dogs leg, has a few knots along its length and the guides are leftovers from various projects but I was accurate enough with it to rise a few wild brownies in a small stream. I couldn’t hook any of them because of the inertia of the tip but it was accurate enough, maybe because it doesn’t have the improved hoops from 15 years ago, like the 25 years old Fenwicks Chris Korich is using


Regards

Vince

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

A few years back, I was at a fly show and had cast a number of top end rods. My accuracy with all the previous rods that I had tried was very much within my usual stats.

I was given a sample of the then current Orvis Helios, that came in two versions - one was supposedly faster and the other more of a finesse option. It was suggested I try the finesse version.

I could not hit within the hoop to save my life with that one!

Folks who know much more than I about building rods suggested that the guides were not oriented to the spine correctly.

The fact that a top manufacturer would screw up a top end rod like that - and then give it out at a show for potential buyers to try - blew my mind!

Of course it might be that the rod exceeded my casting ability, but aren't top end rods supposed to make me better not worse???

[Lasse Karlsson]

I would love to try a rod that messes up my accuracy. I haven't been able to build one by messing with the "spine" or by adding weight. But its probably just me being so bad at accuracy that it doesn't matter

Cheers
Lasse

[VGB]

Folks who know much more than I about building rods suggested that the guides were not oriented to the spine correctly.

The fact that a top manufacturer would screw up a top end rod like that - and then give it out at a show for potential buyers to try - blew my mind!

Of course it might be that the rod exceeded my casting ability, but aren't top end rods supposed to make me better not worse???

They are probably the sort of folks that don’t know that most commercial companies align their rod sections so they look straight, instead of aligning the spine. Sage used to promulgate that information on the blank building section of their site before Far Bank took over. If they are doing it wrong, we should be seeing large numbers of rods that are dogs but they are not the source of the bad smell around the theory.

Regards

Vince

[Rickard]

If the rod is perfectly spined what happens if we don’t have spine exactly towards our target? Or twist the topmost three sections like many do?

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Rickard

Nothing

Spine isn't all its cracked up to be, just turn any rod, and it's clear. The spine is a residue from manufacturing, where the layers of carbon cloth overlap. As soon as rings are put on the blank, it's almost impossible to find the spine. Casting wise, it has no effect, but don't tell the rodbuilders...

Cheers
Lasse