The most accurate fly rod

[Lasse Karlsson]

Many years ago I had a conversation with David Norwich who reasoned that the rod would tend to bend through the plane of bending, no matter where the rings are placed. I can see some logic in this, since it takes little effort to twist the tip around.

I’ve heard so many different options.

Cheers, Paul

Hang a rod horizontally, add weight to the tip, rotate the butt. The tip doesn't spring out to the side... Then try and bend the rod further, and let go. It still doesn't spring out to the side no matter where you turn it to originally. When we cast, we apply pressure at the butt, bend the rod from there and unbend it from there, while the tip drags a line after it. And you want us to believe it has a slight spine that causes it to veer of to the side while we do that if we mount the eyes wrongly due to someone's half-baked theory.

Reminds me of the rodbrand that marketed themselves on having spine aligned for a more accurate cast. They put a nail in the cork to show where you should cast it.
Went to the casting pool with a very eager seller, turned the reel out and made a straight rollcast, and was jumped and told I did it all wrong and shit. Was told to turn the rod and experience a much better cast. Deliberately made a puddle cast out of the next cast and was told by the eager seller, wasn't that a much better cast? Needless to say I just handed him the rod back...

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

If the plane of bending was pronounced, then I think it makes sense for the rod to twist along its own axis in order to bend through this plane. It wouldn’t go out to the side. If you twist the tip ring you can see the rod will quite easily twist. Imagine a particularly soft side; the rod will want to bend through this. Actually thinking about it, this is why David built his rods this way.

I have no idea if this happens in casting. We really need to close up slow motion footage but I’m pretty sure I’ve see the tip twisted right around. That said I think spine is overrated and I’ve never cast a rod and could tell you if it was or wasn’t spined.

Reminds me of triangle rods… remember that one? Softer on backcast, stiffer on forward, or maybe the reverse.

Bizarre world!

Cheers, Paul

[Walter]

I am not sure that the tip will whirl when it has some tension from the line acting on it as it goes from MRF to RSP1.

I agree with this as do the folks at Epic Fly Rods

Add me to the list of people that agree with that as well.

Fwiw I don’t find guides affect my ability to find the spine of the rod nor do they change the spine.

Rodbuliders go out of their way to align the spine based on what I consider to be ritual or superstition rather than data backed performance. It’s their idea of adding custom touches or paying attention to details that the brand name manufacturers don’t in order to justify their added value. I guess this could be why rodbuilders are more likely to think bend matters.

[Paul Arden]

Most manufacturers don’t spine because the first thing an angler does is to look down the rod to see if it’s straight! There is usually some small natural curve. And so all the manufacturers I know ring to the curve as opposed to the spine. It’s very easy to build around the spine and is no more difficult or time consuming that building according to natural bend.

When Lee first started building for us, he was building according to the spine. And we had a rod sent back to us that had a slight curve to it. So it really comes down to what customers want or expect.

One of my favourite Sexyloops articles:
https://www.sexyloops.com/articles/loopcontrol.shtml

IMG_7002.jpeg (32.18 KiB) Viewed 164 times

A rod with a very pronounced spine would make this all rather difficult.

I’m surprised you can still detect the spine when ringed, Walter. I thought that Snakes made a difference to the bend. I need to check again!

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

One of my favourite Sexyloops articles:
https://www.sexyloops.com/articles/loopcontrol.shtml

That’s very good, I especially like the idea of using a magic wand

[Bernd Ziesche]

Thoughts?

Hello mate,
Here is a comment I put below the Orvis introduction of their new magic tool offered by Tom Rosenbauer and Shawn Combs:

Dear Tom and Shawn,
I always thought, that all the nonsense used in promoting new fly rods was coming from the marketing department, not the rod designers. You guys just proved me to have been wrong.
Accuracy in fly casting has always been defined by how good one hits the target (may it be a fish, a specific point or a specific area on the water). You guys aren't in the position to change this.
If you hit (let's say) a target ring of 3 feet diameter using the Helios 3rd generation with just 1 out of 4 casts and now 4 out of 4 casts with the Helios 4th generation, yes - then the new rod provides 4x more accuracy FOR YOU.
You could also set up a target as small as a penny and measure the average distance from the fly to the target. If you now decrease that distance by dividing it thru 4, then YOU also have 4x better accuracy.
Now run such a test with 100 different casters and prove a 4x better accuracy as being possible to be sold to those 100 casters by the new rod.
Obviously within my lifetime you'll never be able to come up with such a prove or anything close, BECAUSE accuracy depends on the caster and the caster only. If you fine guys almost couldn't hit your targets with the 3rd generation Helios and now can, it's because you have trained your casting and have not yet realized to now be able to hit your targets with the old rods, too. As simple as that.
To be fair, I am not saying, that there is anything wrong with the new rods. But with the information given there sure is!
All my best
Bernd
P.s.: I watched the whole 1 hour video and still do not really have any precise info about how much (stiffness) and where (action) the new rod series bends. For me THAT'S what I need to know first of all.
No hard feelings here, just being straight forward.

Using a soft rod or a stiff one in a tournament accuracy game: About 4 minutes mainly false casting in relatively high speed, while trying to track as close to straight as possible asks for quite some physical strength. The softer rod smoothens the resistance profile for accel. and decel. of the rod. In my experience this is the overriding factor to keep control over time.
Cheers
B

P.s.: Should I mention, that Orvis didn't respond?

[VGB]

About 4 minutes mainly false casting in relatively high speed, while trying to track as close to straight as possible asks for quite some physical strength.

What's this straight thing?

[gordonjudd]

Hang a rod horizontally, add weight to the tip, rotate the butt. The tip doesn't spring out to the side

Lasse,
But what about the stripper guide where the twisting effects of spine are more pronounced?

In one of my tests with the rod in a spine finder and and adding some torque to rotate the rod near the 90 degree "jump" axis the stripper guide rotated about 20 degrees due to the effect of spine. The bigger the tip load, the bigger that twist becomes.

The torque required to rotate the rod away from the effective spine is what produces the twist you would feel when fighting a big fish when the guides are placed away from the effective spine axis.

Gordy

[Bernd Ziesche]

What's this straight thing?

A plane. Still there is no straight tip path, nor will the fly line ever move straight. And tracking also will never be straight. BUT trying to keep the rod in plane often makes sense. Trying to move the tip straight RSP 0 to RSP 1 doesn't.
Leaving aside I got your fine sense of humor.
Most instructors still don't understand, that horizontal SLP inline with a horizontal straightened fly line does not work to match trajectory to the effect of gravity during unrolling. We want an upward trajectory when casting along a horizontal path between the fc & bc. That was again wrong pictured in the latest Loop magazine. Gravity was shut off when making the drawings.
Well, that's how I see it. And I am happy to piss off some ppl. with this my view.
Cheers
B

[VGB]

A plane. Still there is no straight tip path, nor will the fly line ever move straight. And tracking also will never be straight. BUT trying to keep the rod in plane often makes sense.

Regardless of what is happening to the fly line?

Regards

Vince