Tracking and Loop planes

[Bernd Ziesche]

I can't remember anyone to have disagreed with that not being a problem.

The double negative in this statement is confusing, but I am saying it's not a problem to do it if it's intentional and the reasons for doing it are appropriate.

Again, what is the intent of the action? If the end result is desirable, the action is not a problem.

Thanks Graeme for pointing this out. I'll put it different:
We often said: To pull the rod off to the side after main launch direction is set, is no problem. We agreed on this for distance casts, too (as far as I remember). By "we" I mean a general consense on SL.

I agree with how you put it.
The headline in that excellent video kind of reveals the task: tightest and straightest loops. Thus casting off to the side and then after loop formation starts moving the rod slightly in, lifts the rod-leg making the loop look tighter from side view position. Looks to me, that this was what Chris was after. And he indeed did well. I also agree about your fine analysis, that this puts the loop plane further of rod plane.

[VGB]

Hi Vince,
I can't read your minds. You refered to "it" yourself.

Same for the "drift" in the horizontal cast.

I just spent 40 minutes in the field, it doesn't happen to me.

I thought it was clear, what we are talking about.
Otherwise I don't know why you wouldn't ask before studying it for 40min.

We should call it X; where X is an independent variable dependant upon whatever you happen to be thinking at the moment you start typing. Horizontal drift was easy top test, I'm surprised you didn't try it yourself before typing.

No link to the thread where Lasse started all of this off?

[VGB]

I’d rather teach people to cast without having to give them a geometry lesson.

It is quite an interesting exercise in how easy it is to overcomplicate lessons with obscure terminology.

viewtopic.php?t=4152&start=20#p80089

regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

We often said: To pull the rod off to the side after main launch direction is set, is no problem. We agreed on this for distance casts, too (as far as I remember). By "we" I mean a general consense on SL.

Where was I when you were having these discussions?

[VGB]

Moving the rod tip upwards and sideways after loop formation adds tension to the rod leg and reduces the effort required during the casting stroke (as defined by the FFi.) Someone unaware of why he is doing this action might interpret the action as "creep" and mistakenly call this a fault in the cast.

It must be over 5 years since we had a long online discussion on how we can manipulate rod leg tension to change outcomes. If I recall that spun out of the thread on snap dynamics, how time flies

regards

Vince

[Bernd Ziesche]

Knowing that “surface” also has a specific meaning in Euclidean Geometry will be something new to many people.

That's new to me, too. I yet thought the word surface is not saying anything about it's shape, size or material.
Exactly why I added flat. A flat surface is clear to me.
What is that specific meaning for surface in Euclidean geometry?
It's different in English though. In German language surface is not connected to any specific at all. And I don't see how ppl. here would associate it with anything specific.

I’d rather teach people to cast without having to give them a geometry lesson.

On one hand I agree (no more then necessary). On the other hand I find it very valuable to teach understanding the cast in 3d, when most think more in 2d entering the lesson. That is part of geometry.

Since we are correcting terminology, Casting Arc should be Casting Sector. I doubt there will be a casting book on the planet that has that right, because that’s not the term in common usage (for us).

Aitor pointed that out many years ago. I didn't change it back then (in my English), because as you say arc was so common in the instructor world. In English I now use "angle of rotation" as Aitor suggested. I like that and he always had a correct point. In German language I always had "angle" in use anyway. The German word for arc would be very confusing. Luckily it was never much (if any) adopted into our casting language.

[Bernd Ziesche]

We often said: To pull the rod off to the side after main launch direction is set, is no problem. We agreed on this for distance casts, too (as far as I remember). By "we" I mean a general consense on SL.

Where was I when you were having these discussions?

I am pretty sure to remember Lasse said, that once the fly-leg has it's max speed and direction it goes and the impact via the rod-leg by (slightly) pulling the rod sideways has a rather very small impact. I have made videos of this in the WC.

What do you think how much percentage of casters move the rod slightly to the inner side during loop travel?

No need to tell, that we were not talking about a massive movement like in a reach mend or such. That's obviously a different task.

[VGB]

On one hand I agree (no more then necessary). On the other hand I find it very valuable to teach understanding the cast in 3d, when most think more in 2d entering the lesson. That is part of geometry.

There are remote tribes all over the world solving complex problems such as spear throwing and firing arrows to take down prey that probably do not have a word in their language for geometry. How did they learn these skills?

[Bernd Ziesche]

Paul,
Steve always was in the absolute top range.
Watch how he pulls the rod hand in at the end. And that's even noticable from this poor perspective.

Little better angle of view:

Are you saying this is a problem and costs Steve and tge others here distance? (Watch Sakari)

[Bernd Ziesche]

There are remote tribes all over the world solving complex problems such as spear throwing and firing arrows to take down prey that probably do not have a word in their language for geometry. How did they learn these skills?

Yes, and there were humans building pyramids without having cranes or any of our modern techniques about 5000 years ago.
Technique available changes (improves) as does language, as does our understanding.
Feel free to ask those remote tribes and copy their methods.