How often do your students practise/train?

[Paul Arden]

Well, you’re not going to agree, Lasse, because you think all rods bend the same. But if you take the classic “Blue Lightning” (which was our tie-breaking rod, hand-rolled in Korea, and a relatively soft 5WT) and you carry 90’ of DT5, and you don’t begin the stroke slowly, then the loop tails. That would be because the rod bends more against the inertia of the line.

But since all rods bend the same, no matter what the stiffness, this won’t apply to you.

We had a Shootout once in Scotland and someone put in a fibreglass rod. I don’t know which one, but one of the Epic rods. I have never seen so many tailing loops in a Shootout. I won that event with a 115’ cast. It might have been the only cast I made that didn’t have a tailing loop. In fact it might have been the only cast in that particular competition that didn’t have a tailing loop!

Why do you think 20 casters all threw multiple tailing loops with this rod and found it almost impossible to avoid them? Some of these casters were – and still are – world class.

Cheers, Paul

[umm, Steve]

As a lifelong student I would like to reverse the question:
How much would an instructor prefer to see a student practice. And further, do any of you object to the Echo MicroRod?

I hope that my question will not come off as simplistic; of course practicing every moment would be ideal, but after a long layoff, I have invented a few new bad habits and I worry about ingraining...

[Paul Arden]

That’s a good question. For me I ask for at least 8-10hrs between lessons. But it can be more if they feel that they need this. That’s often always better in fact. If that takes 2 or 3 weeks that’s fine. In fact I would at first like to see them every couple of weeks, but a month in-between is also fine.

Not everyone can do that and certainly it’s unlikely many will do this long term. So this is just while building and developing new skills.

I’d prefer a twenty minute session 6 days/week over one 2 hour session.

We have to be realistic. People have babies, busy jobs and so on. There are cold dark winters. And of course there is fishing!

If they are training 1hr/day for an extended period then it really shows. I have no problem with 2hr training blocks and I’m happy to structure these too. When I’m training for a competition I’ll usually do two x two-hour blocks most days in the preceding months. Some of the competitive casters I’m coaching are training similarly. It’s not uncommon to find this in instructor training too of course. And some people just love flycasting…

Some big numbers there. To hold the line, particularly without fishing, then a weekly one hour session or three twenty minute sessions is going to help. I don’t think we would see much development from that. But anything more than that I would expect to see improvements.


The skills drop off isn’t huge by the way. It’s not like you take a month out and go back to zero. But you’ll get rusty. Strategic breaks can be quite useful too.

So that’s an approximate guide. I track my students quite closely. Many of them track their own casting very closely and write it down. So we have actual numbers. With proper structure, starting from someone who can already cast, around about 100 hrs is where the magic happens. It might be 80. It might be 150. But there will come a point when you will go “wow!” That’s when life begins

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

And further, do any of you object to the Echo MicroRod?

I think it’s a useful tool. But I don’t have any real experience or numbers.

[VGB]

It is a good question. From a psychological view you have the blockers that people put in against any form of training (time, opportunity etc) vs perceived benefits and effort involved, you can’t easily coach motivation. Having been given a recognisable measure of performance or results, the student can become self sufficient for training and a degree of self honesty is required.

My personal sweet spot was 30 - 45 minutes, 3 times a week. More than that, training became mundane less than that, I stopped training regularly because I broke the habit. Having automated a skill, I find I benefit from short breaks of a week or 2. The Yerkes-Dodson Law Of Arousal And Performance is worth understanding if you want to regulate your training.

For content, I focus on knowledge of performance with varied constraints that represent fishing problems. An example would be Paul’s loop and plane drills at various carry lengths with fly leg layout as an external cue and delivery to a target at varying ranges, with wind from varying quarters. During a season, I fish anything from #2 to #10 set ups and I use them for practice as well.

If I duff a shot during a fishing session, I may practice that scenario on the field using representative set ups if it was caused by a failure of technique. I like problem solving and that still gets me out to practice, I think individually you need to know what floats your boat, I still get excited about fishing after over 50 years of it. I practice my teaching as well, even if I am talking to the birds.

I don’t use the MPR indoors, there’s only so many ornaments can go missing before you get caught. I leave it set up in my shed and use it for understanding mechanical problems and sequencing as a real world replacement. It is not representative enough for me.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

It obviously depends on levels and where we want to be with our performance. Fly fishing for me is the meaning of life, as it is for many people here. There are not many days in the year when I’m not fishing, and almost zero when I don’t at least have a rod in my hand.

I’m on the water 6 or 7 days/week and I average about 10 lessons/week over the course of the year. But even so, if I don’t train my shots then I go backwards. Even through I’m casting virtually every day, without specific shot training, I lose my edge. You can’t ignore it, if we want to perform at an exceptional level with our casting while fishing, then we need to train in addition to the fishing (and coaching) that we do.

I work on my shots a little bit every day. There are fishing things you can do. For example one way to develop shots is to run the bank using an electric thruster motor and cast to the edges. That’s good training. The distances are constantly changing, we need to be accurate and there is also opportunity for curve and reach casts.

We don’t always have to be at top level in every area. I’m not even sure it’s possible, and there are always peaks and troughs in our performance level. The important thing is to be at the top level when it counts. If I’m going to Spain I’ll work on presentation casts, pre an MCI exam I would work on aerial mends, before a distance championship I’ll work on distance (and put serious time into this), pre AAPGAI meets and from time to time when I was in NZ, I would work on my Speys.

Right now the most important thing for me is shots. My entire fishing world here is about taking shots. So I focus my practise on that and just do enough to keep everything else simmering in the background.

But that’s different. This is then about maintaining skills at certain levels, not about developing new ones. Developing new ones is where the time is required.

Cheers, Paul

[Stoatstail50]

Hi Umm

I’d be very happy if they did any practice at all… It’s very unusual for recreational casters to practice. It’s different for instructor candidates and the geekery.

There seems to be more pressure to do it if they’ve booked blocks of lessons but even then it’s 5 minutes in the garden and it’s pressure not pleasure. If they haven’t practiced then the next lesson gets perpetually put back because they don’t want to get found out…

I’ve yet to come up with any effective way of motivating someone to practice regularly…and I’ve tried for years.

I’m fine with the MPR.

[Rickard]

So there exists persons getting lessons but doesn’t practice?

[VGB]

Based upon SPOOTA, I would say that 98% (rounded down) of students do not practice after a lesson.

[Stoatstail50]

So there exists persons getting lessons but doesn’t practice?

Most definitely.