The Board

Ladies and Gentleman,
Not sure I can ask this question correctly but I’ll try.
Can any given rod, say my 8wt NFC prefer one line configuration over another? In other words, let’s say I have 60’ in the air of a long belly line and that 60’ is equal or close to the same grain wt as 45’ of a Grand Slam style where all the wt is in the first 35’? Will the rod perform better with one over the other given the same maximum distance you’re throwing, let’s say 75’ to the Mangroves.

Vinny,

If you are placing your fly into the roots and under the mangrove branches at 75' my hat is off to you!

To answer your question: I don't think the rod cares.

I will tell you this... I used to fish with the longer belly lines, and I still do in some situations but not when painting mangrove shores. My thinking went like this:

I do not work the fly all the way back to the boat. Instead, I pick up at some distance from the shore, make one maybe two back casts, and replace the fly.

So... ideally... the stripping distance should be running line - so the pickup is just at where the rear taper of the head meets the rod tip. That way the entire mass of the head is carrying the fly, and thin running line easily shoots through the guides.

I'm getting old and I have always been lazy. Going to a shorter head allows me to effortlessly work a shoreline for as long as I care these days.

As for the shape of the head, I have not tried any of the newer "power" tapers. I found some old style simple front taper - belly - rear taper saltwater floating lines and they seem to work for me: SA Redfish.

75’ is just a number I used. Realistically 50’ is more like it and I also strip only to where I believe I’m out of the strike zone then lift get my distance on my first forward cast if need be otherwise it’s one FC then on to the next target.
What I’m finding is my NFC rod just feels better with the GS compared to the LB line given the same approximate weight in the air. 35’ of GS outside my tip is say 50’ of the LB in weight approximately..
I’m also finding it’s much easier for me especially with my BC when in windy conditions the GS is much more manageable vs. 50’ of LB in the air.
Again I’m a novice at best so my findings are only worth

Hi Vinny

Rods don't care, casters do.

35 feet and 50 feet, if they weigh the same, also have to be equally straightish in the air to give similar feedback. Rarely that happens. The shorter the head the more of the weight is usually at the casters disposal. Hence the difference in feel.

Cheers
Lasse

Lasse
Makes perfect sense which leads me to think, the shorter head is better in close quarters where a longer belly is better for reaching out further. Also, would either, short of longer head facilitate casting in windy conditions?

I appreciate you guys
Vinny

Vinny,

Out of curiosity... what is a NFC rod?

No Friggin Clue?

I'm unsure about different lines in the wind. I know I often pray to just straighten everything out when casting into the wind, so I don't shoot much, if any. So I would guess the head length should about match how long you are commonly trying to reach?

Wind from the side might be a completely different story?

He’s talking about a North Forks Composite blank. Gary Loomis’ current company.

I think James answered this question for me several years ago. As I understood, the difference in feel between a long head and shorter head of the same mass is related to inertia. The sag/slack in the longer head means you move its length more sequentially than the shorter head. You overcome its inertia more gradually. As a result it feels lighter.
I found this idea very helpful. Not in picking lines but in recognizing when a backcast should be better. If a rod feels like it is not ‘loading’ the problem is probably the backcast not the line.

Lasse Karlsson wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:27 pm Rods don't care, casters do.

I love that summation - I'm shamelessly stealing it!

Cheers,
Graeme

I largely agree with Lasse, rods don’t care, casters do, and you can with today’s rods cast all types of lines on all rods equally well. It’s all a question of preferences, so choose the line that’s best for the task.

However, that hasn’t always been the case. Hardy produced a fiberglass rod back in the 70s, the Richard Walker Superlite, that was fun with standard head length WF lines ones you had the full head out but terrible with DT lines (DT was the norm back then and what we mainly used). It was a stiff rod with a fairly soft tip. The early twohanded rods G.A. designed for Sage was similar. They worked well with the short shooting heads he was using but was terrible both for Spey and overhead with full DT lines or very long shooting heads. For those lines we generally preferred rods with quite stiff and heavy tip sections and softer mid sections, such as the Bruce&Walkers of that period. Today’s twohanded rods for tournament spey casting are designed similarly, and for the same reason.

Also, a shorter line head of same total weight will feel heavier and bend the rod more when holding the full head in the air (it may also be classified as a heavier line).

Nils

George C wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:13 pm He’s talking about a North Forks Composite blank. Gary Loomis’ current company.

I think James answered this question for me several years ago. As I understood, the difference in feel between a long head and shorter head of the same mass is related to inertia. The sag/slack in the longer head means you move its length more sequentially than the shorter head. You overcome its inertia more gradually. As a result it feels lighter.
I found this idea very helpful. Not in picking lines but in recognizing when a backcast should be better. If a rod feels like it is not ‘loading’ the problem is probably the backcast not the line.

George
Thank you for explaining the NFC. I built several a few years back. Good blanks they are!! I prefer my HT’s though. They just feel better.
I do find my BC needs special attention when I the wind is coming from my 6. I have a lot of work to do